Re: Re: the missing umlaut on Gödel's gravestone

[Kennedy, Juliette]

I agree that the story is good fodder for satirists of academic life! With all the problems the world faces etc etc.

Just to clarify, the Gödel Archive at the IAS was not consulted at all on this, someone in the upper administration approved the change.

There are good arguments on both sides. I understand that the original typography looks wrong to a German speaker. However there is a story behind the error. And whether it is a simple case of negligence on the part of the cemetery, or something else, it seems to me that a deeper level of research should have been carried out, in order to discover which. If the former, then yes, the headstone should have been changed. In case Adele assented to the design, I would hesitate to change it.



Department of Mathematics and Statistics
P.O. Box 68 (Gustaf Hällströmin katu 2b)
FI-00014 University of Helsinki, Finland
tel. (+358-9)-191-51446, fax (+358-9)-191-51400
mobile: +358-50-371-4576

www.math.helsinki.fi/logic/people/juliette.kennedy/<http://www.math.helsinki.fi/logic/people/juliette.kennedy/>
________________________________
From: Alexander M Lemberg <sandylemberg at juno.com>
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2020 5:12 AM
To: monroe.eskew at univie.ac.at <monroe.eskew at univie.ac.at>
Cc: Kennedy, Juliette <juliette.kennedy at helsinki.fi>; fom at cs.nyu.edu <fom at cs.nyu.edu>; michael at mbarany.com <michael at mbarany.com>; gernot.salzer at tuwien.ac.at <gernot.salzer at tuwien.ac.at>
Subject: Re: Re: the missing umlaut on Gödel's gravestone

Maybe the IAS just did not want to be bothered by this silly business any
more.

On Thu, 24 Dec 2020 11:04:51 +0100 Monroe Eskew
<monroe.eskew at univie.ac.at> writes:
> According to the blog post of Andrew Hartford, the IAS was consulted
> and supported the move.
>
>
> > On 24.12.2020, at 09:42, Kennedy, Juliette
> <juliette.kennedy at helsinki.fi> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Whatever one thinks of the mispelling, the Gödel archive at the
> IAS should have been consulted on the change.
> >
> >
> > Department of Mathematics and Statistics
> > P.O. Box 68 (Gustaf Hällströmin katu 2b)
> > FI-00014 University of Helsinki, Finland
> > tel. (+358-9)-191-51446, fax (+358-9)-191-51400
> > mobile: +358-50-371-4576
> >
> > www.math.helsinki.fi/logic/people/juliette.kennedy/<http://www.math.helsinki.fi/logic/people/juliette.kennedy/>
> > From: Monroe Eskew <monroe.eskew at univie.ac.at>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 10:31 AM
> > To: Kennedy, Juliette <juliette.kennedy at helsinki.fi>
> > Cc: Gernot Salzer <gernot.salzer at tuwien.ac.at>; Michael Barany
> <michael at mbarany.com>; fom at cs.nyu.edu <fom at cs.nyu.edu>
> > Subject: Re: the missing umlaut on Gödel's gravestone
> >
> > I have to disagree.  The previous headstone was simply a
> misspelling.  Anyone with a basic knowledge of German would see it
> as embarrassing and disrespectful.
> >
> > Best,
> > Monroe
> >
> >>> On Dec 24, 2020, at 1:01 AM, Kennedy, Juliette
> <juliette.kennedy at helsinki.fi> wrote:
> >>>
> >> 
> >> What I know about this is that the Gödel Archive at the IAS may
> not have been consulted on the alteration of Gödel's headstone. As
> to the advisability of the alteration, it is possible that Adele
> Gödel, who outlived Gödel, assented to the plan of the headstone
> (including the typography), if she did not even participate in its
> design.
> >>
> >> I don't think it should have been changed in any case. The
> headstone is (or rather was) a historical document.
> >>
> >> Department of Mathematics and Statistics
> >> P.O. Box 68 (Gustaf Hällströmin katu 2b)
> >> FI-00014 University of Helsinki, Finland
> >> tel. (+358-9)-191-51446, fax (+358-9)-191-51400
> >> mobile: +358-50-371-4576
> >>
> >> www.math.helsinki.fi/logic/people/juliette.kennedy/<http://www.math.helsinki.fi/logic/people/juliette.kennedy/>
> >> From: FOM <fom-bounces at cs.nyu.edu> on behalf of Gernot Salzer
> <gernot.salzer at tuwien.ac.at>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2020 8:20 PM
> >> To: Michael Barany <michael at mbarany.com>; fom at cs.nyu.edu
> <fom at cs.nyu.edu>
> >> Subject: Re: the missing umlaut on Gödel's gravestone
> >>
> >> I'm not informed about Mr Hartford's qualification in logic, but
> he
> >> apparently was sufficiently knowledgable to realize that this
> speck left
> >> above the O didn't qualify as an umlaut, not even as a
> hungarumlaut
> >> (which would be wrong, too). It may not be obvious that o, ö,
> ő, ô, ...
> >> are all different letters, but they are. This is not a
> typographical
> >> issue.
> >>
> >> Kudos to Mr Hartford for setting Gödel's name right (even though
> there
> >> are certainly more pressing problems than correcting this
> spelling).
> >>
> >> Gernot
> >>
> >> On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 11:39:32PM +0000, Michael Barany wrote:
> >> > Does anyone with an IAS connection know any of the other sides
> of the story of how a random lawyer / skincare entrepreneur / Godel
> fan with an "Eternal Past Conjecture" that looks ripped from the
> crackpot files of 20th century mathematical archives managed to get
> permission ot alter a gravestone because he disagreed with the
> typography? Seems incredible to me that, as he reports it, he could
> have done so with the IAS's support.
> >> >
> >> > (Note, contra Martin Davis's summary, that the umlaut was not
> "missing" but rather engraved in a style --- presumably approved by
> the executors who arranged the original burial --- that the
> headstone vigilante, and probably many on this list, found
> unfamiliar.)
> >> >
> >> > Michael
> >> >
> >> > And so it came to pass that at 17:00 on Sunday the 20 of
> December in the year 2020, fom-request at cs.nyu.edu did declare:
> >> > > Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2020 09:09:49 -0800
> >> > > From: Martin Davis <martin.david.davis at gmail.com>
> >> > > To: fom at cs.nyu.edu
> >> > > Subject: the missing umlaut on G?del's gravestone
> >> > > Message-ID:
> >> > >
> <CA+cpueJTs0f-aWVgtJZt7u8=NuMki77J9j603jt=8fCBGp9h9g at mail.gmail.com>
> >> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >> > >
> >> > > Andrew Hartford's story telling how he got the missing umlaut
>  placed on
> >> > > the gravestone for Kurt and Adele G?del'
> >> > >
>
https://andrewhartford.medium.com/on-arguments-and-arguants-reason-reason
ing-and-reasoners-46036a26a848

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